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Pat Nevin: 'It was clear the supporters would only put up with their team's negative tactics so long as they were winning'



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Published Date: 10 August 2008
THROUGHOUT LAST season I consistently warned that Rangers fans would only put up with their team's negative tactics so long as they were winning. It was clear that large numbers who pay fortunes for season tickets would turn on the manager at the moment of failure. That moment arrived in the 86th minute on Tuesday night.
It was never a case of if, but rather when. The rope-a-dope tactic of soaking up attacks only to break when the opposition let their collective guard down always leaves you open to a sucker punch, or even just a lucky one. In Kaunas, Nerijus Radzius'
haymaker followed by Linas Pilibaitis' knockout blow left everyone asking the same question; why didn't the coaching staff realise this was an opponent who would almost certainly have keeled over had Rangers come out fighting from the start with two or more strikers?

Well, Walter Smith had watched these tactics work time and again last season in Europe and even on the road in the SPL, so history was on his side. He also knew that his team was in less than top form going into this vital game, so expansive football might have been seen as the more risky strategy. Remember, when visiting Dundee United late last season he adopted a 4-4-2 and in no time the previously impregnable defence had leaked three goals and it should have been more.

Confidence and energy levels were low in the camp, maybe because of the combined draining effects of losing the league, losing the UEFA Cup final and playing 68 games. Pre-season had been less than glorious with the 4-0 home defeat by Liverpool only adding to the deflation.

On top of this, with injuries to Carlos Cuellar and Barry Ferguson, he knew that his two best players were unavailable. The loss of the captain was the more important because apart from being the driving force he is also the most creative player. Anyone who watches football could see that they lacked any worthwhile intelligent invention in midfield against Kaunas. Walter might have thought, why start with a bunch of strikers if I have no one capable of supplying them?

A perfect example was apparent in the first half when Nacho Novo on the right wing tore past his marker three times in the first 15 minutes. It was patently clear that he should have been given the ball at every opportunity; instead it rarely arrived for the rest of the half. In fact his only other meaningful contribution was setting up the goal from the opposite wing where he had been forced to go in search of the ball.

Time and again he was alone, wide on the touchline, with space behind the defender and yet no midfielder seemed capable of getting their head up and playing him in. It wasn't as if it needed an incisive Glenn Hoddle 60-yarder with the outside of the foot. A lump vaguely into the right area would have done the trick. Ferguson would have picked it out and maybe even Steve Davis would have spotted it too, but this inability only served to bring Rangers' current deficiencies clearly into focus.

On the odd occasion when the ball did eventually reach Novo after half a dozen unnecessary passes, he was by then marked by two or three players who effortlessly shepherded him inside were he was ineffective.

Maybe the Spaniard by then just wanted to link up with Kenny Miller who must feel as popular with the Rangers players as he does with a section of the support. For large periods of the game not one of the five midfielders seemed willing or able to get up and support him as he struggled to lead the line on his own. Once again this is a job that Ferguson takes on board when things aren't going well.

This could be the crux of the problem; there is no one at the club who can do the various jobs that the skipper does. Last season he had his critics even among his own supporters but as is often the case certain players' importance only becomes apparent when they are not in the side.

Smith rarely uses injured players as an excuse, in fact he doesn't tend to use any legitimate reasons for failure as excuses because he knows these are problems managers simply have to overcome. It is the job, so why whinge? With ridiculous calls for his sacking already, I would suggest that the mediocre performance during the week served to underline just how good a job he did tactically last season to ensure they overachieved all the way to Manchester.

The inclusion of new signing Madjid Bougherra and the return of Cuellar and Ferguson should be enough to ensure Rangers are there or thereabouts in the league come the end of the season. The biggest worry is that Celtic could be out of sight by Christmas if Barry doesn't return very soon and the midfield is left to its own devices.

Last week I couldn't see how Rangers were going to produce a new creative genius considering their budget. It is an even taller order now that the Champions League money has disappeared and the lure of the competition itself can't be used. The domestic season has only just begun so a bit of perspective is needed but you sense there is already precious little room for further error at Ibrox. Certainly the need for painstaking preparation before every match will be crucial.

Even in the build up to the Kaunas trip I wasn't convinced that facing Liverpool four days before a must-win game was a great idea. There was always the possibility of a confidence-bursting thrashing and Liverpool are such an accomplished passing side there was also the danger of having to chase shadows for 90 minutes, the most tiring and soul destroying thing in the game.

Even the flight over to Lithuania was questionable. The BBC let me out of the studio for once to co-commentate and I was booked on the Rangers team plane. The honour was slightly diminished when I realised we had to be at the airport at 6am on the Monday, which meant getting up at 4.30. It was while driving bleary-eyed over the Kingston Bridge that it hit me that the players were doing the same and they had a game that could shape their entire season the next afternoon.

Maybe this is common practice these days, but I know I still didn't feel quite right by the time the game started. The only chance for training was on that afternoon and it was all but washed out in a torrential thunderstorm. As a player I would prefer to have travelled on the Sunday, allowing time to recover from the journey. I just hope that it was a mistake in the planning and not a cost-cutting exercise demanded from above to save on hotel bills. If that was the case then the Rangers fans shouldn't hold their breath for the arrival of a much-needed creative midfielder, they'll need a creative accountant first.

WHO CAN FILL THE CREATIVE VOID AT IBROX?

STEVEN NAISMITH


Signed from Kilmarnock for £1m on transfer deadline day last August, Naismith's first season at Rangers was blighted by injury. He started just 12 league games and has not had the chance to reproduce the goals and assists that helped make his name at Rugby Park. Adept at playing in wide positions or just off the front two. Still recovering from a serious knee injury sustained in last season's Scottish Cup semi-final.

CHRIS BURKE

Back in light training following a serious ankle injury, Burke is an orthodox winger with an impressive array of tricks in his armoury. An old-fashioned dribbler, his crossing is not always on the button. Used sparingly by Walter Smith last season, Burke suffers from the winger's curse – inconsistency.

DAMARCUS BEASLEY

The American winger is back in training and will return to the first-team squad next week after recovering from a hamstring strain. Fast and direct with an eye for goal, Beasley missed much of last season with a knee injury but returned for the Scottish Cup final, scoring in the 3-2 win over Queen of the South.

STEVEN LENNON

A hat-trick in the 2007 Scottish Youth Cup final win over Celtic made supporters sit up and take notice and the striker made three substitute appearances for the first team that season. Now 20, he was confined to the reserve team last season but did win a call-up to the Scotland Under-21 side.

JOHN FLECK

The nephew of former Rangers striker Robert Fleck has long been groomed for great things at Ibrox. Can play in midfield or attack and was in the squad for the 2007 pre-season tour of Germany. Still only 16, Fleck, right, made his competitive debut last season and won a Scottish Cup medal as a late substitute against Queen of the South.





The full article contains 1540 words and appears in Scotland On Sunday newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Teary Ennui,

10/08/2008 00:03:40
Actually there was discontent about the tactics last season. Naturally this becomes amplified when the team suffers vital defeats.

Good to get the first three points of season on the board yesterday. Let's hope midfield reinforcements are on the way soon.
2

,

10/08/2008 00:49:59
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
3

Scotland Uber Unionists,

10/08/2008 00:55:07
Nevin. You've been on the Gers forum reading my posts, haven't ya?

The Rangers midfield is as devoid of intelligent ball players as journalism is devoid of intelligent journalists, that much is clear but I don't believe you have to spend heavily to get these players. Look around for bosmans but it's obvious top class pro's wont come to ply their trade in Scotland so we have to look for 2nd or 3rd tier players just like the papers here have 2nd or 3rd tier journo's.
4

Scotland Uber Unionists,

10/08/2008 00:56:27
2pasquenade. Get off your pious high horse ya fvkin hypocrit. That's why your mob are hated around Scotland, you really think you're something special.
5

2Pasquenade ,

10/08/2008 01:09:00
We were hated around Scotland before we even opened our mouths.

But we're here, winning, and being Champions, and that's good enough for me.
6

,

10/08/2008 01:15:31
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
7

Celtic Forever,

No-one likes them, they don't care 10/08/2008 01:53:31
This team assaulted it's way through Europe last year and were so bad that it surprised many. They humiliated Scotland by playing anti-football and became an embarassment.

This culminated in the appalling scenes in Manchester when the filth from Govan showed Europe what Scotland already knows, that RFC are a disgusting and shameful institution.

Fortunately, Scotland will get some pride back by watching football from Scotland played the right way; the Glasgow Celtic way.
8

Daillyman,

10/08/2008 02:38:34
7

Patrick if anything was said to
Bain in front of his son, then it was out of line. As an individual who has had the misfortune to have met Bain on numerous occasions and played golf with him as well.

He is in my opinion to SDM, what Nueman was to Dick Advocaat,,, his eyes and ears in the dressing room.

Bain is nothing more than a snivelly wee clipe who reports everything that he hears and reports it to SDM.

Mind you its only my personal opinion.
9

Daillyman,

10/08/2008 02:41:17
8

Why don't you do us all a favour and spin on you're thumb,, you really do need a bit of excitement.
10

mot juste,

W.I.M.P. "Walter"InMeltdownPhase !!! 10/08/2008 02:48:47
#5 James

No.

"Walter" still has no surname.

He is recognised only as "Walter"-The Man With No Surname.


However,I do believe that they have stopped calling for Sir "Walter"-The Man With No Surname.

Somehow after "Walter" led Rearrangerz to their worst European defeat in Rearrangerz` history,then those behind that notion of a knighthood suddenly felt it no longer would be appropriate.

At least they got that much right !

Not half.
11

chazbud,

10/08/2008 02:53:21
#10 well said

dailyman, i worked with a guy who knows mr bain, he told me the year bain took his new position as head of finances/contracts etc, in 2001, that rangers as a club would never progress beyond where they were then in 2001, he was told by mr bain that rangers could not progress any further than they had upto 2001, he said as a club, they were finished, i think back and i see larsson, their new stadium, o'neill, lennon, hartson, sutton, strachan, mcgready and nakamura and i cant help but think of what he had told me 7 years ago, i didnt believe him at the time but now looking back, he was spot on, we havnt moved on at all, we havnt progressed as a club should since the last time walter was here.its killing me the lack of progress we have made as a club in the last, say 10 years, we have stood still while celt*c have strolled past us.
12

Daillyman,

10/08/2008 03:06:30
12 chazbud

I first met Bain 15 years ago and he was John Greigs bum boy, excuse the expression, but he was a gopher.

When Advocaat came in and signed Nueman( decent fullback but had no balls) but the fullback reported everything that was said in the dressing room to the boss, and he did the same thing when at Eindhoven in Holland.

Bain was the same way with Murray, he is a 2 faced shoite and I would not trust a word he said. He would hang WS to save his own skin. Only my opinion for what its worth.
13

mot juste,

R.O.T.`r Rearrangerz On The `run !!! 10/08/2008 03:07:38
If any Rearrangerz fan wondered why they have been turfed out of all European competition for at least 1 full year by the tiddlers from Kaunus,then they only need to have viewed that effort today against Falkirk.

"Walters" new-look,new-season Rearrangerz were dreadful.

They won the game,yes I will give you that,but they were neither the best team nor did they deserve to win.

"Walter", after the game said he was happy with the victory and the encouraging signs he said he witnessed.
And as a non Rearrangerz fan,then that is good.

But it just shows the level to which Rearrangerz have sunk and the performances that bring them cheer, when that effort yesterday brought "Walter" even the slightest bit of satisfaction.

Still,if "Walters" happy.

Sad.
Isn`t it.
14

chazbud,

10/08/2008 03:09:56
#13 ive wanted rid of him since he gave contracts to mo ross, stevie thompson and capucho not to mention emerson, nerlinger and ostenstad, if he is in charge of wages and money, he is hopeless at his job, we dont need to get into the same debt advocaat done to us to have better players, i am sick of this great club penny pinching, if the chairmans heart is not in it, he should go and take mr bain with him, i feel sorry for walter despite his negative defensive tactis and loyalty towards very poor "footballers". is it true mr bain is a celt*c fan?
15

Daillyman,

10/08/2008 03:20:38
14 Idee

I give you credit for the shoite you post


15 chazbud

I cant give you any answers regarding Bain. All I know is from meeting him on numerous occasions and from being in his company, I dont like him, he is Murrays boy(puppet) and the quicker the Gers are rid of him the better,

McClelland in my opinion was a far better RFC man but at the time when he was CEO, we Rangers supporters did not want to hear the facts on the state of the club financially.

Bain is a dick!
16

mot juste,

S.W.A.L.L.Y. SirWantawayAbsenteeLandLord Yes !!! 10/08/2008 03:22:49
"Walter",Bain and Sir Wantaway gave the 15 delegates representing Rearrangerz fanz across the globe guaranteed,cast-iron assurances that there would be NO selling off of the family silver.

"Walter",Bain and Sir Wantaway promised the Rearrangerz fanz delegates on Friday afternoon, at the specially convened meeting at Murray Park that Cueller and McGregor specifically,would NOT be sold to make up for the financial loss as a result of being unceremoniously booted out of all European competition for at least a year by the minnows from Kaunus.

Jim Templeton and David Edgar insisted that that was the main thrust of calling for the meeting in the first place and that they both had left that meeting with those cast iron assurances.
Those assurances would mean that the three at the top table would NOT get rid of their best players and would therefore not make an already week team even weaker.

Assurances or not,I can smell a whole load of cow dung.

Rearrangerz fanz deserve at least the truth.

Dont they.
17

Daillyman,

10/08/2008 03:23:32
14 Idee

Why no posts on referees conspiracy's? Is it to early in the season for that!
18

Daillyman,

10/08/2008 03:27:57
17 Idee

I had a good mate of mine who was at that meeting at Murray Park, when he gets back I will let you know what actually happened. Believe it or not I wont lie as Pax says I do.

Honest injun.

Check the Gers website my mate is the baldy fellow front left centre.

Honest report to follow follow.
19

chazbud,

10/08/2008 03:29:22
mmm, you dont like him then? i thought mcclelland was lost as acting chairman, we needed leadership, i dont see that in big john!
20

Daillyman,

10/08/2008 03:35:53
chazbud

Having been in business along time until early retirement, you are only as strong as the people you THINK that support you.

Bain is and was a w-nker, who always looked after himself.

Big Johns downfall was he thought everyone should put the club first as he would have done.
21

mot juste,

TweenImmaculateFrenchVinyards `n GovanScrapyard ! 10/08/2008 03:40:25
I agree that it would be madness if "Walter" was to renage on their player sell off promises.

Some analysts have suggested ridiculously that the wheels fell off "Walters" juggernaut because they had too many games to play when in fact Rearrangerz were responsible themselves for some of those "extra" games.
Others have suggested it started with the 4-2 game at Hearts,while others still say that big Venegoor of Hesselink`s extra time clincher woz wot dunnit.

They are good and almost plausible explanations.
But they are wrong.

And everyone connected with Rearrangerz in any way shape or form know fine well they are nonsense.


"Walter" lost the league the minute he kicked Alan Huttons nerse doon the marble staircase,no names,no pack drill.

"Walter" and Rearrangerz can attempt to blame others.

But we are the others,and we know different.

Dont we.
22

chazbud,

10/08/2008 03:45:01
#21 i liked big john, but he didnt inspire me the same way sir david murray USED TO!
23

Daillyman,

10/08/2008 03:51:39
22 Idee

You and I both know that the punting of Hutton had nothing to do with WS. This was a business decision reached by Bain and SDM.

We can banter back and forth but even you and the most diehard tic supporters would agree that football today is a business, and if a former youth player who has graduated to there first team and can command a transfer fee of approx 9mil quid, it will be a done deal, especially when it involves an SPL club.

Honest answer please before the Viagra kicks in,its 11pm and the wife awaits.
24

mot juste,

W.A.R.(T) "Walter"AgainstRangersupporters(T)rust 10/08/2008 03:53:56
#19
Brian

You dont need to wait.

The only info that matters from the Murray Park meeting is already in the public domain.
We dont need wee pals to inform us.

Jim Templeton president of The Rearrangerz Assembly and David Edgar of The Rearrangerz Supporterz Trust confirmed the assurances and cast iron guarantees that they left the Murray Park meeting with.

That was a guarantee from "Walter",Bain and Sir Wantaway that Cuellar and McGregor specifically would NOT be sold.
Other topics were discussed but the NO SELL OFF of those two players was the crucial part of the specially convened meeting,that would never happen they were told.
In other words they were not prepared to weaken an already weak side.

It is absolutely crystal clear.
Isn`t it.
25

Daillyman,

10/08/2008 03:59:13
23

SDM told us things that we wanted to hear. And we bought it hook, line and sinker.

Then Advocaat sold a tale of European supremacy to Murray. Cost 80mil worth of debt. And we are still suffering.

Souness was a football man who put us on the road to 9IAR.

Without the European ban on English sides for that period do you think we would have done 9IAR?

It makes you wonder does it not chazbud?
26

Bob dublin,

10/08/2008 04:02:30
#24The last time i had viagra, it got stuck in my throat,,,i had a stiff neck for two days,,.
Which creative player wants to come to Glasgow,,without CL play? There must be some Georgians dying to get out of there.But seriously,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Rangers are like a Bed n Breakfast trying to compete with Marriott.
Dads Army cue (not dados) we,re DOOMED
27

chazbud,

10/08/2008 04:07:54
#26 no we prob wouldnt have, but we did!

advocaat was a disgrace, 80million to win spl then get chased out by o'neill.

souness was good but ended up very poor, a big spender on rubbish, newcastle, galatasary, liverpool, southampton.
28

chazbud,

10/08/2008 04:08:51
btw dailyman, do you know if karagounis and barone are still coming?
29

Daillyman,

10/08/2008 04:09:57
25

You and I both know that every player has a price.

If Carlos is sold for what ever price, it should be done to benefit the club.

If we sell him and pick up 2 or 3 players at a value of say 7 to 9mil quid, we will win the league.

I promise you Idee I will not gloat should we win the league next May.

Not much.
30

chazbud,

10/08/2008 04:12:20
#30 a wonder what idee(mot juste) will be like if chesney gets off to a howler, out a europe and behind in the league again.....
31

chazbud,

10/08/2008 04:12:44
12m cuellar nothing less n he can go.
32

Daillyman,

10/08/2008 04:16:03
27 Bob

I hope to be in you're fare city courtesy of my wifes company next month.

With or without CL football, the old term for footballers is "money talks and b-lls-it walks.

If the money is right I would rather play 40 mtches for the same money you are offering to play 60 matches.
33

Daillyman,

10/08/2008 04:19:06
32 Chazbud

There are numerous teams in the EPL reportedly interested in Cuellar.

My guess is he ends up at Arsenal for around 8-9mil
34

chazbud,

10/08/2008 04:21:12
i wouldnt take 9m, we dont want robbed like hutton, they have millions to waste, we want some of it, the price must be 12m.

do you think the smellies would accept 9m for mcgready or borat? i dont think they would, they would hold out for more, thats how ye do business.

arsenal i doubt it, i say liverpool or spurs.dont think newcastle can afford him.
35

chazbud,

10/08/2008 04:25:53
would ye rule out man u? maybe sir alex asked walter to keep carlos out of the european game....
36

Daillyman,

10/08/2008 04:27:11
29 chazbud

Saw a player by the name of George Boyd playing for Peterborough Utd.

Young 22 year old left sided midfield player, looked very good against Man Utd in a friendly.

The boy had a good turn of speed, great vision, good left foot, not afraid to have a crack at goal, and had balls if you know what I mean.

These are players our scouts should be looking at.
37

chazbud,

10/08/2008 04:30:22
#37 yes, i agree, but we dont have a scouting system.

apparantly our "scouts" scouted out mcculloch, adam, dailly, beasley, cousin, darcheville and thats only recently, god, our scouts thought ostenstad and capucho were rangers class.thats worrying, there are better ball players playing in the SPL just now for smaller clubs.every team in the spl has a settled midfield except us.
38

Daillyman,

10/08/2008 04:31:03
35 chazbud

Arsenal are very weak through the middle in the back four.

William Gallas as you're main central defender, if you have any hope of CL success with that diddy you're in trouble.
39

Daillyman,

10/08/2008 04:36:09
38 chazbud

The best "scout" or evaluator of "undiscovered" talent in Scottish football today is Craig Levein of Dundee United.
40

Daillyman,

10/08/2008 04:42:56
Later.
41

chazbud,

10/08/2008 04:49:28
later bud, but yes levein for the gers after walter, mr levein is very good.
42

a bhoys life,

Dublin 10/08/2008 09:00:45
So the knuckle draggers scrapped through against the bairns yesterday.....Then trudged off to pound thier frustration into keyboards, declaring inane rantings about;
Cuellar 12m! you are having a laugh, or maybe the viagra is reducing the blood flow to your brain.
Cuellar better than Gallas! Do you watch football, can you appreciate the movement, passing, ingenuity & style....oh of course not, you are followers of the sub prime rearangers.
Get a life, check out the Champions at 12.30 today
43

carrottop,

Dumfries 10/08/2008 09:02:40
If Vlad is wrong about the conspiracy theory then why has an East of Scotland newspaper put the Rangers report in number one spot on this site. It may be bias towards the bairns but I doubt it. Hearts or Caley were far more worthy of the 'honour'.
The normal Rangers dire performance, scrapping a win and the Scotsman thinking its the first thing we want to read, should be put on softer paper and used in the toilet.
44

mot juste,

S.W.A.L.L.Y. SirWantawayAbsenteeLandLord Yes !!! 10/08/2008 09:57:00
One of the best and clearest sign that your club is in crisis is when there is mistrust,suspicion and fear between that clubs management/owner and the clubs fanz.

Take Rearrangerz Football Club,they are a prime example in question.

Half of the admission their club was in crisis was when they hastily convened that meeting at Murray Park late on Friday afternoon.15 Rearrangerz fanz delegates were invited to attend and they came from all over the shop,New Zealand,Australia and Canada.

The main thrust of the meeting was to establish what went wrong and to fix it!
The most importatnt issue discussed was the retention of their best players.
As I said Jim Templeton and David Edgar stood up seperately after the meeting closed and announced publically to the waiting laptopmeejaroyalz that they had been given that guarantee by "Walter",Bain and Sir Stillwantsaway.
So trust is crucial.
At least if you want to stabalise your club when in a crisis.

Cue Saturday mornings laptopmeejaroyalz newspaper headlines and they are covered with stories and suggestions that Cuellar and McGregor CAN go if the price is right.

So where do Rearrangerz` 15 globe trotting fanz representatives stand now do you think?

They`ve been conned.
They have been had !!
There is zero,zilch,hee-haw trust between Rearrangerz management and their own fan base now left in the tank.

That is the clearest sign that Rearrangerz are in a deep crisis.

A club in crisis that turns its back on its own fanz,even worse,gives them cast iron guarantees and assurances only to jettison those guarantees within 24 hours really is holding their fanz beneath contempt.

Sad.
Isn`t it.
45

Jambo Abroad,

10/08/2008 10:07:57
Should we not be celebrating today????

We are allowed to comment on a Rangers story....

Wonders will never cease!
46

,

10/08/2008 10:22:33
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
47

mot juste,

TweenImmaculateFrenchVinyards `n GovanScrapyard 10/08/2008 11:27:44
Ever since Hutton was got rid of, the laptopmeejaroyalz started praising Cuellar.
To drum up support for his sell-on come the summer and to stop Aiden McGeady being Scotlands proper Player of the Year,alas the laptopz were helpless in preventing Aidens Young Player of the Year Award,he was just unstoppable.

Anyway.

After "Walter" et al have given the Rearrangerz fanz delegation assurances that neither Cuellar nor McGregor would be considered for sale,they are put straight in the shop window!!

Who by?
"Walter" thats who by.

Why would "Walter" announce to the laptopmeejaroyalz that he had received nothing,zero ,zilch,nada and hee-haw offers for Cuellar.
Apart from THAT in fact being the truth,why do it?

As Billy Dodds said on BBC Radio Scotland yesterday,the only thing that "Walter" achieved in doing that was to put Cuellar in the shop window,he WAS for sale.

EXACTLY what "Walter",Bain and Sir Stillwantsaway told the 15 man Rearrangerz delegation that they would NEVER do.

Never has the "cow dung" statement in Rearrangerz fanz eyes been more relevant.

You can just imagine the scene at Murray Park....

"hey bosses,thats they 15 delegates from all around the world arrived."

Right lads thanks for coming says the 3 man spokesman(take you pick which one).....we want to tell you a story................at least that part was true !!

The rest has already gone down in Rearrangerz history.

Hasn`t it.
48

,

10/08/2008 11:47:21
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
49

celtc r atrocious,

sydney 10/08/2008 12:12:30
# 49 wee fred
might also explain why the likes of idee / asbo bhoy and the rest are collectively known as the septic taleban
apt really
50

celtc r atrocious,

sydney 10/08/2008 12:13:33
# 49 wee fred
see what i mean
septic taleban at work
51

celtc r atrocious,

sydney 10/08/2008 12:16:09
# 49 wee fred
think that mot juste / idee probably guilty of getting your post shunted
must have been too close to the truth for him
mot juste indeed
52

mot juste,

S.W.A.L.L.Y. SirWantawayAbsenteeLandLord Yes !!! 10/08/2008 12:17:01
Chickie boy Young has just interviewed Peter Lawwell live on Rdaio Clyde.

You know that Peter Lawwell is being honest when he speaks to his fans.

At any rate actions speak louder than words,and the words coming out of Edmiston Drive directed at their supporterz are hollow hollow.
Their actions are yet to follow follow!!

Sad.
Isn`t it.
53

mot juste,

W.I.M.P. "Walter"InMeltdownPhase !! 10/08/2008 12:20:46
Why would any right thinking Champions Celtic supporter ever wish to have a Rearrangerz comment removed when it embarrasses,humiliates and degrades Rearrangerz Football Club.

#52 Comment by all means.

But comment sense.
54

,

10/08/2008 12:28:35
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55

Alliz,

10/08/2008 13:47:01
If your way of winning the league last season is "the Glasgow Celtic way", heaven is going to be a cfc free zone.

Wanted to ask someone from steak pie FC, did you enjoy your tour of Japan?
56

BEMUSED EXILE,

10/08/2008 14:30:10
Oh dear oh dear.

The more things change, the more they stay the same. Looks like Celtic have once again enlisted the help of a willing official to manufacture an on-field success that they couldn't achieve by themselves.

This "penalty" will take it's place alongside the penalty that never should have been against Rangers in the last OF match, the clearly offside winner against Falkirk, and the "soft" free-kick that finally beat St Mirren at Love Street.

Andy Walker made an interesting comment in the Sunday Mail a few months ago about how he was often embarrassed as a Celtic player by the "easy" decisions that his team got in domestic matches at CP.

It looks like the incessant protestations of the Celtic-minded have finally succeeded in creating the climate of fear that they hoped for, and that too many officials are now looking for an opportunity to do CFC a favour.

Winning the SPL was already looking difficult for Rangers this season, given the poverty of talent down Ibrox way. Today's events have just demonstrated how difficult it will really be.
57

2Pasquenade ,

10/08/2008 14:50:16
To my mind it was never a penalty, but we'll see at the end of the season how many stonewallers are denied us....without exception in Celtic's case, the stonewall denials greatly outweight the dodgy awards.

In fact, I cannot remember the last time that Celtic were awarded a dodgy penalty.

The broadfoot/mcdonald was undoubtedly a penalty. Broadfoot started to impede him outside the box, but you could say that the ref played advantage as mcdonald was able to hold him off.

The, Broadfoot grabbed mcdonald in a bear hug INSIDE the box , and pulled him to the ground.

Having acknowledged that Celtic got a break today, any rearrangerz fans willing to acknowledge that Charlie Adam should have got two yellow cards yesterday ?
58

Teary Ennui,

10/08/2008 14:56:07
In the Broadfoot/McDonald incident, the Celtic player fouled the Ranger outside the box by stamping on his foot. This brought Broadfoot down on top of him. I can see how it might have looked like a penalty from some angles but it was the wrong decision.

Very bad decision today.

But I wouldn't ascribe to any conspiracy/bias theories. These things cut both ways. You do wonder about the "bottle" of referees at times though.
59

2Pasquenade ,

10/08/2008 15:01:45
59

You're kidding yourself on about the broadfoot/mcdonald incident.

You are the only rearrangerz fan I have seen to express the view that actually there was no foul at all...a quite unique perspective, and truly a 'stand alone' interpretation of the incident.

Why McDonald would want to stand on broadfoot's foot instead of running forward to tuck the ball away demands extraordinary explanation, though it is easy to see why broadfoot would wish to hold mcdonald back, and when that failed, haul him to the ground...inside the box.
60

2Pasquenade ,

10/08/2008 15:02:46
Still , broadfoot wasn't red carded, so you still got a break.
61

Teary Ennui,

10/08/2008 15:07:00
"You're kidding yourself on about the broadfoot/mcdonald incident. You are the only rearrangerz fan I have seen to express the view that actually there was no foul at all." (#60)

But there was a foul (as I said). McDonald fouled Broadfoot. This could be seen in the highlights the BBC had on their website. Don't get your knickers in a twist about it. Referees make mistakes. Some mistakes go in Celtic's favour. As I said, I could see how it might have looked like a penalty from some angles.
62

2Pasquenade ,

10/08/2008 15:08:47
62

In your dreams old son, in your dreams.
63

,

10/08/2008 15:09:59
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64

,

10/08/2008 15:14:23
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65

,

10/08/2008 15:16:39
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66

jim b,

10/08/2008 15:19:07
Pat says celtic could be out of sight by christmas.On todays showing not a chance,Unless they get some iffy ref mistakes .but they all level out . dont think so

67

Swordsman,

Dublin 10/08/2008 15:49:08
Afternoon Ladies

Only saw the second half as work got in the way,but have to say, NEVER a penalty..Curiously though, the earlier challenge on JVOH by the Buddies keeper warranted a spot kick IMO..Two wrongs dont make a right, but thats the way it goes sometimes...

On another tack..When will the fans get aff their collective @rses and CHEER the team on..Embarrassing for one who was a Jungle regular for years to hear touchline chatter above what should have been a rowdy,celebratory atmosphere...
68

,

10/08/2008 15:56:09
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69

RoyaIty,

10/08/2008 16:03:26
Hey bemused imbecile away and look after the wean. The real faither is probably oot the back doing your wife.
70

invictager,

Kent 10/08/2008 16:30:14
Said it yesterday. Not as much between the OF as some would like to think. We have every chance of winning the league this year if Walt gets his finger out and finds a midfielder.
71

Swordsman,

Dublin 10/08/2008 16:48:14
69..Is that once on two counts, or twice on one count?
Tell it like it is,mate...any other way is just plain foolish....
72

Teary Ennui,

10/08/2008 17:14:35
"The earlier challenge by the St Mirren keeper on JVoH was a much clearer-cut penalty" (#73)

The ball was out of play by the time the keeper collided with Hesselink. Your lot got a break today. These things happen. Accept it, rather than searching desperately around for things to deflect from it.
73

Richardinho,

10/08/2008 17:17:56
'In the Broadfoot/McDonald incident, the Celtic player fouled the Ranger outside the box by stamping on his foot.'

Really-how is it possible to stand on someone's foot when they are behind you and you are running forwards?
Only if the foot is not where is should be-in this case trying to trip McDonald up.
74

2Pasquenade ,

10/08/2008 18:27:52
76 James

I don't think there was anything in it...if anything I thought the Saint Mirren player was careful to avoid impeding Jan.

But, I agree that the earlier incident was a penalty. The ball had not yet gone out of play, and even though Jan was unlikely to get to the ball, the goalie misjudged the challenged and took him right out.
It's conceivable that the ref had some misgivings about that decision so much so that he decided that the next half decent shout would be upheld.
75

2Pasquenade ,

10/08/2008 18:33:57
On the point about Jan's arm, Jan had his arm outstretched which prevented the Saint Mirren player from challenging on that side.

Momentarily I think the player did try to push Jan's arm out the way, but he quickly sipensed with that idea and then tried to come at Jan from the other side.

I don't think Jan was entitled to fend the player off with an outstretched arm, and his brief attempt to get Jan's arm out the road was reasonable I thought...I'd need to see it again, but I didn't think there was any intention to put Jan off balance , just an attempt to counteract Jan's doubtfully legal protection of the ball.
76

2Pasquenade ,

10/08/2008 18:43:49
Watched it again half a dozen times and I still don't think it was a penalty.
.
Also watched the earlier incident half a dozen times and remain convinced that was a penalty. There was no realistic chance of Jan getting to the ball I think, but it was a stonewaller.
77

,

10/08/2008 18:51:33
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78

,

10/08/2008 18:53:54
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79

BEMUSED EXILE,

10/08/2008 19:18:01
An interesting idea, Tim.

But we'd have to lay down some strict ground rules with regard to what constitutes "changing the outcome of the game".

Today, for example, a very soft penalty that leads to the only goal of the match. This one changes the outcome without a doubt.

But what about a "stonewall" penalty that ISN'T given? There are no guarantees that the penalty would have been converted into a goal, so can we say that it "changed the outcome"?

Or a contentious sending-off at 0-0 where the 10-man team goes on to lose. How sure can we be that the sending-off really made the telling difference?

Or what about a situation again like today's, where a soft penalty makes it 1-0, but the team then goes on to win 2-0 or even 3-0. Can we say that the penalty changed the outcome?

Takes a bit of thinking, this one!
80

2Pasquenade ,

10/08/2008 20:38:29
James , I see your point, but my impression is that Jan wasn't entitled to stretch his arm out like that to fend the guy off.

So for me it's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other.
I thought Jan was deliberately fending the guy off with his arm, and that allows him a bit of latitude to get the arm out his way....I don't consider his attempts to do so were excessive.

But since we were denied a belter of a claim earlier, I don't believe that it can be said that any injustice arose.
81

2Pasquenade ,

10/08/2008 20:43:07
In fact, had the earlier one been given, the goalie would have walked which may have put Saint Mirren at greater disadvantage....one man short on the field and a rookie goalie between the sticks.
82

Exiled Bear,

Oxfordshire 10/08/2008 21:41:39
not harping about the medium term past, but about this season: there are a number of issues at Ibrox at the mo, my biggest issue is our reluctant Chairman.

Being a Chairman can't be 100% business, in fact you can argue it was business negligence that cost us defeat in Kanuas. Your only creative midfielder is long term injured then it is time to open your cheque book, and maybe more than you would want to, because the CL will be worth £10m, plus any extra UEFA revenues.

We sign no one, I'm no SPL Chairman but that was a huge error of judgment. Smith made an error in signing 3 forwards, without selling any, and not looking to bulk up his obviously bare midfield, particularly when we scrimp over less than a £1m to sign Davis, who is not the answer to all our problems, whilst a welcome addition.

Up until a season ago I felt that Murray had the best intentions for the club, but now, he has told some blatant lies regards transfer budgets and is not forthcoming about club development, and his direction.

He may want to sell, and maybe that is the issue, but there is no one willing to come in and we have a tired and uninterested Chairman, who couldn't give a gnats chuff whether we qualify for the CL or win the SPL, as long as he makes a profit until someone buys us for a sum that gives Muuray a return.

WATP, whatever happens to our Club.
83

BEMUSED EXILE,

10/08/2008 22:01:29
Exiled Bear

I agree with the general sentiment of your post, but I do wonder why so many want to lay so much blame at David Murray's door.

SDM has handed something like £20 million to WS to spend in the transfer market, and you have to ask yourself, firstly, whether this is really too low a sum for the purpose, and secondly, whether WS has used it wisely.

I blame Walter, who has bought something like a dozen players since he returned, but very few who can actually take the team forward, and, as you rightly say, the purchase of three strikers was an act of folly, particularly when that money could have been used to bring a forward of real flair and unpredictability such as James McFadden to the club.

Now we should probably expect the sale of Cuellar and Boyd (hopefully along with Cousin) with half of that money going to WS to allow the purchase of a couple of good quality midfielders and the other half being used by SDM to further reduce the club's debt in a season where there is no European pot of gold.

Yet, at the end of all that, we just might have a squad that is more balanced than it has been for a while, and one that can capitalise on the free midweeks and the freedom to concentrate on the SPL.

We can but hope.
84

jerrymanders,

10/08/2008 22:07:05
"The earlier challenge by the St Mirren keeper on JVoH was a much clearer-cut penalty" (#73)

The ball was out of play by the time the keeper collided with Hesselink. Your lot got a break today. These things happen. Accept it, rather than searching desperately around for things to deflect from it.

So you admit the 'keeper fouled him? It doesn't make any difference where the ball is at the time it depends on the foul. Check the Laws.

85

Rufus T. Firefly,

10/08/2008 22:25:25
Unbelievable decision, isn't he the very same ref that gave them a free kick in the last minute against St Mirren at Love St last year from which Knackeredmotor scored. He's also the brother in law of Phil O'Donnell.
86

Rufus T. Firefly,

10/08/2008 22:26:28
SO he is the brother in law of Phil O'Donnell. See picture 10.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...ic/7419315.stm
87

Rufus T. Firefly,

10/08/2008 22:32:32
It must go down as one of the worst penalty decisions ever.

Castlemilk is fouling the centre half by leaning into him!
88

BEMUSED EXILE,

10/08/2008 22:32:35
Rufus

There is no doubt that BOTH Rangers and Celtic get more than their fair share of contentious refereeing decisions in domestic football, particularly, although not exclusively, as Ibrox and CP, and today was another graphic example.

Even as a Rangers fan, I have no trouble acknowledging this obvious truth. What irritates me most, however, is the number of Celtic fans who will go to great lengths to dream up some justification for each of these incidents, while crying "conspiracy" whenever it's Rangers who are the beneficiaries.
89

Rufus T. Firefly,

10/08/2008 22:33:16
Thís is not an honest mistake.

How can it be?
90

Rufus T. Firefly,

10/08/2008 22:35:42
Bemused, all due respect and all that, but have you seen it?

It is an outrage. It is nowhere near being a penalty.

Eddie Smith did the same in the Celtic St Mirren game last season.

Gordon Strachan may not be ´"Celtic Minded". Eddie Smith certainly is.

91

Rufus T. Firefly,

10/08/2008 22:37:01
Worryingly, that decision has probably set the tone for the season
92

Rufus T. Firefly,

10/08/2008 22:41:35
SO he is the brother in law of Phil O'Donnell. See picture 10.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...ic/7419315.stm

As it says,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,O'Donnell's children and friends line-up pre-match with skippers Tom Boyd and Chris McCart with the midfielder's brother in-law Eddie Smith refereeing