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Irish ministers join the battle to rid Scottish football of sectarian chanting



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Published Date: 12 October 2008
By Eddie Barnes Political Editor
A GROWING campaign to rid Scottish football stadiums of sectarian chanting has reached the top levels of the Irish government.
Dublin's minister for foreign affairs Micheál Martin has expressed concerns over the "intimidation" at Celtic vs Rangers matches, following protests from politicians in the Irish Dáil. He said he had received a promise that "tangible new steps" wil
l be taken by the Scottish Government.

The row comes after an Old Firm game in August when Rangers fans were heard singing the Famine Song, which includes the line "The famine's over, why don't you go home." The song also refers to how the Irish in Scotland have brought the country "nothing but trouble and shame". Rangers FC have asked fans to refrain from singing the song.

However, TDs in Dublin are now urging Irish foreign ministers to raise the matter in Edinburgh. Alan Shatter TD said some of his constituents who had travelled to the game from Ireland had complained about what he described as "offensive anti-Irish songs". He added: "The singing of such songs is a regular event and has caused fear and concern to Irish residents and their children who on occasion visit Glasgow for such football matches."

Martin said: "I am assured that tangible new steps to tackle sectarianism are currently being reviewed by the Scottish Government and I am hopeful that the proposed measures will help to improve the situation."

The matter was first raised at a meeting between the Scottish Government and the Irish consulate last month, and Martin said the consul-general has now been asked to monitor the situation.

But sources last night suggested that the strength of feeling in Ireland is such that the matter may be taken up by Irish MEPs, who will seek tougher sanctions against fans.

In 2006, ministers introduced new Football Banning Orders under which sectarian singing can lead to a 10-year ban from UK games. However, some now say that singing such songs should lead to an immediate arrest.

A spokesman for First Minister Alex Salmond last night said: described the exchanges in the Irish parliament as "very helpful and constructive". He added: "The Scottish Government is funding and supporting many initiatives to combat sectarianism, including Promoting Citizenship Through Football launched this week. Last month, the First Minister reaffirmed his commitment to tackling sectarian bigotry and will make a statement in due course."

Last month, former first minister Jack McConnell attacked the Scottish Government for failing to follow through his own high-profile bid to stamp out sectarianism. He claimed this was allowing the "cancer" of sectarianism to grow back.

However, the SNP insists it is rolling out a series of measures. Ministers are funding groups including Sense over Sectarianism and Nil by Mouth. The Government is also backing a £150,000 football project known as "Kick Out Bigotry".

Last week, Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill also unveiled a partnership between football chiefs and the Government to weed out sectarianism by promoting "positive citizenship" through sport.

The row over the chanting of the song at the Old Firm game on August 31 is unprecedented even in the turbulent history of rivalry between the two clubs. Celtic chairman John Reid condemned the song as "racist".

However, Celtic fans have not escaped censure. A Northern Ireland sports minister said he was unlikely to accept an invitation to Celtic Park because of pro-IRA chanting by fans. DUP MP Gregory Campbell wrote to Reid about songs sung by Celtic fans during their September 13 game away to Motherwell and demanded the club take more action.





The full article contains 609 words and appears in Scotland On Sunday newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 11 October 2008 7:50 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
 
1

Big Stevie,

Sydneyside 11/10/2008 23:36:31
How shameful is it that it takes the intervention of a foreign government whose citizens are being routinely racially abused every time they visit Scotland before we see the possibility of any meaningfull action on this issue.

One Scotland many cultures except if you're Irish.
2

truthsleuth,

12/10/2008 00:16:18
#1 One Scotland many cultures except if you're Irish

And therein lies the problem

Are you Irish or Scots?
3

Big Stevie,

Sydneyside 12/10/2008 00:25:00
#2

Therein lies the problem indeed.

What does it matter what I am. Whether the song affects me or doesnt has no relevance here. As it happens I am a Scotsman living in Sydney but that doesnt change the fact that, as the Irish Government has pointed out, Irish citizens are being routinely racialy abused when they visit our country. This should be a concern to all Scots no matter what their ethnic background.

The silence from the Scottish Government, the SFA and the SPL is truely shameful as is the lack of condemnation from Rangers FC.

If we are to move on as a nation, independant or otherwise then we have to confront our demons. And anti-Irish racism is certainly one of them and one which cannot be confrinted and removed by sticking our heads in the sand and pretending it doesnt happen.
4

glen urquhart,

glasgow 12/10/2008 00:28:37
Of course if a similar song was regularly sung about Africans in Glasgow, Alex would have to do something about it. Call yourself a leader?
5

Steve French,

12/10/2008 01:36:17
What a complete embarrasment for Scotland (again).

Well done Rangers fans, God knows what the rest of the world must think.
6

Ban MacTire,

Alba 12/10/2008 01:37:47
#2 - are you Irish or are you Scots?
A tricky question, with no easy answers - if you recall your history - the Scotii, who give their name to this country were a Celtic tribe from the north of Ireland who founded the Kingdom of Dalriada on the west coast around Argyll and eventually amalgamated with the native Picts to form Scotland, under -if I recall correctly - Kenneth the First, and then a large chunk went back over to the north of Ireland with the Plantations of the 17th Century - who became known as the Scots-Irish (a huge amount of whom went on to become the founders and a large part of the modern USA in the 18th Century)

So one possible answer to your question is - BOTH.
For the most part modern Scots and Irish are both the same - Celts or Gael's - take your choice of label.

I can trace my family through both sides from the Gaels of Ulster who came over to Scotland to escape the famine, to the Highland Gaels.

Ultimately your question becomes political and possibly religiious - as racially & culturally, there's hardly a fag paper you can put between the Scots and Irish.
7

Big Stevie,

Sydneyside 12/10/2008 02:27:36
#6

Which makes it all the more bewildering why some people in Scotland still retain a pathological hatred for all things Irish.

For all intensive purposes we are the same people.
8

Patrick from Hamilton,

Hamilton 12/10/2008 02:32:49
It is , indeed , a disgraceful that Irish visitors to our country have to endure such hurtful taunts . Perhaps on their next visit , instead of attending an Old Firm game , they could visit the Burrell Collection , Kelvingrove Art Gallery or even one of the other cities or historic sights of Scotland . In any of these venues they would be practically guaranteed to avoid the sectarian abuse endemic in the institutionally anti-Irish hell-hole that is Scotland .

Or could it be that the main reason for some of these chaps to visit our racist shores is to hurl sectarian abuse at the native population , sing in praise of genocidal terrorists and generally flaunt their hatred of Britain and love of Irish Republicanism .

No. That can't be it . After all , I'm sure the visit of a large boisterous crowd of west of Scotland Loyalists would be met with warmth and understanding were they to descend upon Dublin once a fortnight to watch a game of football , wave the Union Jack and sing about the success of the British Army in killing Irish Republicans .

Truely our lack of hospitality is an unparalleled blight on humanity .

Scotland's shame ; Southern Ireland's righteous victimhood .
9

Big Stevie,

Sydneyside 12/10/2008 02:46:24
#8

A bigger pile of racist stereotypical mince you would go a long way to find.

So some Irish men singing songs about Irish Nationalism in your eyes justifies widespread and endemic racism against a nation with whom we are closely linked.

Any Irish visitor to these shores for any reason has a decent chance of suffering the endemic racism towards the Irish that you have summed up so well.

Or perhaps we should inform Visit Scotland that we no longer welcome visitors from Ireland.

Scotlands Shame right enough.

10

donald,

glasgow 12/10/2008 05:39:50
They could start with the Loyalist/Unionist/British Nationalist Celtic Board and all the sectarian games played by Labourites, both ends to the middle, to divide and rule.

Just ban the Old Firm. They are a disgrace to humanity.

The potato famine reached the Highlands too, but there were few people left as they had mostly been cleared out buy then. Both the famine and the clearances were unnecessary and manufactured.
11

Alex Scott,

Glasgow 12/10/2008 08:00:15
Yet more shoddy and deceitful reporting from Eddie Barnes, erstwhile editor of the Scottish Catholic Observer. As sung by Rangers fans, the so-called ‘Famine Song’ contains only one line: ‘The famine’s over, why don’t you go home?’

The chant is intended as an ironic response to music played over the PA system at Celtic Park (‘The Fields of Athenry’ and ‘Let The People Sing’ both refer to the famine), which is invariably followed by songs sung by the Parkhead support celebrating violent Irish Republicanism. The words of the chant may be viewed as tasteless and provocative (as is much humour nowadays) but, as Rod Liddle of the Sunday Times points out, they are relatively tame in the context of those heard in other British football grounds. Interestingly, Liddle also detects a bias in the Scottish media with regard to its respective treatment of the Rangers and Celtic supports.

As a society, we either have to agree on no restrictions on speech or complete censorship of anything that could be considered remotely offensive by any individual. Any position taken between these two extremes is entirely subjective and, I fear, this is the position we have found ourselves in. However, as has become increasingly apparent, the subjectivity of some is accorded infinitely more worth than that of others and a pernicious threat consequently lurks in the background to this entire issue.

We are in grave danger of not only suppressing freedom of speech but criminalising a certain section of the community at the behest of the Roman Catholic Church, its cheerleaders in the Scottish press and, it now appears, politicians from a foreign country. Hopefully, Alex Salmond will have enough sense to instruct Micheál Martin that he has no right to interfere in the internal affairs of another nation.

Would that politicians in the Republic of Ireland had shown as much eagerness to extradite terrorists guilty of countless murders and atrocities rather than harbouring them!


12

Colin Wilson,

Aberdeen 12/10/2008 08:21:03
People should stop calling this problem "sectarianism". There's no conflict in Scotland between Protestants and e.g. Polish or Italian Catholics. The problem is confined to people who identify with one side or side of the ethnic conflict in Ireland. It's in that light that the problem needs to be addressed.
13

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 12/10/2008 08:30:04
The Irish government should have left well alone. Both sides are as bad as each other. If a bunch of grown men want to chant wee songs at each other, let them. Why anyone would get upset by a reference to something that happened nearly 150 years ago beats me. Sticks and stones etc. And I speak as a descendant of someone who came over on the famine boat, before anyone gets into my mince (with no tatties, of course).
14

Tarquin,

12/10/2008 09:11:39
#9

So a group of Scots Irish football supporters singing a song poking fun at other Scots Irish football supporters tells you that endemic anti-Irish racism is rife in Scotland? Err, right. Your username suggests you live in Australia. I would respectfully suggest there is far more blatant, sinister and widely-accepted state-sponsored racism throughout your adopted country.

As for the The Famine Song's suggestion that the influx of Irish immigrants since the late 19th century has brought nothing but shame and trouble to Scotland, this is of course unfair. Consider what else the song could have mentioned: divisive single-faith schooling, the reawakening of a shamed extremist cult masquerading as a Christian religion and, with it, tacit acceptance of appalling sexual abuse of children; all of which came to Scotland with them.

One thing does puzzle me: the Irish immigrant population appears to have suffered a terrible time throughout their time in Scotland, having (apparently) been victims in the past of discrimination in housing and employment. Now, they tell us, they're being victimised in song at the country's football grounds. Why would anyone choose to raise children in a country where they know they won't be given a fair chance? To put it another way, Irish immigrants clearly feel institutionally discriminated against in cold, wet, unhealthy, impoverished Scotland. If so, the question does indeed lend itself: why don't they go home? Why would anyone choose to stay in a country where they don’t feel at home and where there's so much to complain about?

Seems very odd to me.
15

wuggles,

Glasgow 12/10/2008 09:15:15
Perhaps the TDs in Dublin,in the interest of parity, could also ask the Scottish Parliament to crack down on the Pro IRA songs sung by the celtic support at all games.


Oooops!Silly me,that's not sectarian, that's political.

Sectarianism in Scotland is a one way street.
16

eric,

lothian 12/10/2008 09:16:29
Mr defoe said Glasgow was the prettiest little town in britain,He returned 10yr later after the 1st wave of irish and said it was the ghetto of europe.the irish that did come left for England they were not welcome at all,so the connection is small,we have has union with france and now England for over 300yrs,so we are all more entwined with the english culturally and financially,its all blown out of proportion.
17

eric,

lothian 12/10/2008 09:42:39
what are we going to do burn mr defoes history books
18

Wee Fred,

12/10/2008 09:46:04
"Alan Shatter TD said some of his constituents who had travelled to the game from Ireland had complained about what he described as "offensive anti-Irish songs". He added: "The singing of such songs is a regular event and has caused fear and concern to Irish residents and their children who on occasion visit Glasgow for such football matches."



Aw diddums - did these poor little children not feel 'fearful or concerned' when some of those jolly craicsters sitting next to them were singing about a group who blew up children and pregnant women?

Was there any 'fear or concern' about the death threats to an opposition player?

Or was it, as usual just selective 'fear and concern' like their selective offendedness.






As for "The song also refers to how the Irish in Scotland have brought the country "nothing but trouble and shame"" - well i've not misse a Rangers game home or away for years and its the first time i've heard this line mentioned.


Why does no one take these biased reporters to task?


And why do these self same reporters not confront the Celtic Chairman about the serious allegations in this clip?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gG4u4Wy28H0

Why indeed?

19

Wee Fred,

12/10/2008 09:54:37
Eddie Barnes true colours get exposed in The Scottish Media monitor

"Reporter Eddie Barnes, working for that voice of muscular Christianity, the Scottish Daily Mail, pursued the religionists' tired message in another story over the "sordid sex education booklets". Even moral campaigners admit they've not found one instance where the packs, Primary Schools Sex and Relationships Education and Taking Sex Seriously have been used in Scottish schools. These were Eddie Barnes's worst nightmare. "Among other suggestions, the booklets tell teachers to give five-year-olds lessons on the names of sex organs and get 11-year-olds to role-play being homosexuals". (What a damn good idea! Children decorating Raploch with flower-baskets; chilled cabinets of Chardonnay in Haddows; tables and chairs outside Greggs; an Ikea in Castlemilk; Executive-funded cat refuges... Where do I sign)?"

http://www.scottishmediamonitor.com/articles2.cfm?ID=113

A journalist pursuing an agenda?

Looks like it
20

Como Toes,

12/10/2008 09:58:54
Not this tripe again from the anti-British contingent.

Yesterday, at the Scotland versus Norway match, anti-English racism was clearly heard by one and all yet there's not one mention of it in the press. Perhaps some of our English politicians should be getting themselves involved to assist in the eradication of this shameful singing from Scotland's supporters - this would no doubt be met with thousands upon thousands of Scot's Nationalists complaining about foreign interference in our affairs.

If any Plastic Paddy doesn't like his/her standard of living in Scotland, then why don't they go home?
21

Wee Fred,

12/10/2008 10:05:05
More objectivity where Mr Barnes shows his true colours

http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/12637/Eddie-Barnes--Cross-with.4283428.jp

The term 'Tims with typewriters' springs immediately to mind.
22

W Smith,

Middle East 12/10/2008 10:10:04
No mention of the following:

1) Known IRA members have, over many years, attended games at Parkhead.

No comments from John Reid you'll notice who used to get drunk with Salmond's friend George Galloway and sing sectarain songs!

2) Video clips on youtube showing SOME Celtic fans singing IRA songs in Newcastle and Manchester with not a Rangers fan in sight.

3) Comments left by Celtic fans on youtube clips of Old Firm games showing some, not all, Celtic fans give as good as the get as far as bigotry is concerned.

Those Celtic fans who are bone idle spongers are 'victims' of an overly generous Social Security system in the UK.

They know damn well that if the return to their beloved homeland the pay-outs are not so generous and they actually might have to go out and work for a living.

Like all the other immigrants in Scotland if you're not happy then leave.

PROBLEM SORTED!

BTW
In my experience the genuine Irish folks are less anti-British than the Plastic Paddy's who turn up at Parkhead.
23

Wee Fred,

12/10/2008 10:11:41
"In my experience the genuine Irish folks are less anti-British than the Plastic Paddy's who turn up at Parkhead"


Mine too - I suspect Mr Barnes is one of the latter
24

Big Stevie,

Sydneyside 12/10/2008 10:15:27
Thousands of British people including many Scots are welcomed with open arms in Ireland should they choose to travel there despite the fact that the British oppressed the Irish for 800 years and killed enough Irishmen to make the number of Republican victims seem like a drop in the ocean.

What a shame that many in Scotland are prepared to cling to imagined historical events and stereotypes in order to justify there hatred of anything Irish or Catholic.

The "famine song" has been declared racist by Show Racism the Red card, the body responsible for monitoring racism in Scottish football,Kick it Out, the body responsible for monitoring racism in football in the UK, Searchlight, the orginisation responsible for monitoring Nazi orginisations in the UK as well as countless politicians from all parties.

This should be enough to stop any reasonable person singing it but sadly the anti-Irish sentiment, as shown in many of the posts above, seems to be prevailing.

One Scotland many Cultures Except if you're Irish
25

Big Stevie,

Sydneyside 12/10/2008 10:18:05
#22

I respectfully suggest you confront your own pig ignorant racism and bigotry before inviting anyone to leave Scotland.
26

Wee Fred,

12/10/2008 10:20:21
~24 - Great rhetoric being spouted by the terminally offended.
27

Como Toes,

12/10/2008 10:20:23
#24.

The term h*n has been declared sectarian by Nil by Mouth, yet it's still sung at every oppotunity by Celtic fans. (It's so offensive that it's now allowed to be used on this forum, hence the asterisk)

Where's the condemnation of that from you and from the media?

One Scotland many cultures, expect if you're a Rangers-supporting British Protestant.

28

Como Toes,

12/10/2008 10:22:28
This time in non-dyslexic mode:

#24.

The term h*n has been declared sectarian by Nil by Mouth, yet it's still sung at every opportunity by Celtic fans. (It's so offensive that it's not allowed to be used on this forum, hence the asterisk)

Where's the condemnation of that from you and from the media?

One Scotland many cultures, except if you're a Rangers-supporting British Protestant.
29

Ursus arctos horribilis,

12/10/2008 10:26:05
On behalf of the thousands of innocent men, women and children murdered in cold-blood by the IRA-an organisation habitually celebrated by the Celtic supporters each week in their vile sectarian songs-I would like to state that I am also deeply offended.

I am also offended that these MOPES are offended and that an obvious pyshe-take should be used to try and score points beggars belief-and I say that as someone with family who left County Down for Glasgow in the mid-19th century so spare us the crocodile tears.

From personal experience I always reckoned "real" Irish people were endowed with more commonsense and perspective than the blinkered MOPE WOS plastic wanabees-whose mindsets are still planted back in another era. However if the Eire government-who should have more important things on their plate to worry about such as an economy floating down the Liffey- wishes to poke its neb it -let it be at least try and be even -handed and condemn the virtual IRA-fest that is present at Celtic away matches.
30

Alex Scott,

Glasgow 12/10/2008 10:26:43
#24 Big Stevie,

As I am sure you are aware, the chant referred to is not directed against genuine Irish people.

It targets the faux Irish, pro-IRA contingent within the Celtic support.

Indeed, it makes a perfectly reasonable point - if you hate Britain and Scotland so much and pine for a foreign land, why don't you leave?
31

Tarquin,

12/10/2008 10:35:52
#24

Aah Stevie, what a quality post.Ignoring the questions, changing the subject plus a healthy does of whataboutism thrown in. Great stuff.

Irish people are among the nicest in the world, genuinely. They're more than welcome in Scotland. What's less welcome is the narrow-minded, whining dependency-culture bigots who move to the backwater that is Scotland and stay there for decades, rearing generations of children to grow up there and telling everyone who'll listen how awful the place is.

If you do live in Sydney, do you spend all your time complaining about how hot the weather is, how many dangerous animals there are and how the locals are all racists? If you did, I wonder what the reaction of the locals would be? I'm guessing three words: "****", "off" and "home".

Scotland accepts many cultures but we won't accept parasites who do nothing but bite the hand that feeds.

Irish immigrants: they hate the Crown but love the half-crown.
32

Big Stevie,

Sydneyside 12/10/2008 10:37:10
30

What pray tell in your considered opinion constitutes a genuine Irish person.

Its not Scottish Celtic "faux Irish" fans that are complaing to the Irish government, its ordinary Irish citizens who are being racially abused when they visit a supposed friendly neighbour.

If the point is perfectly reasonable then why have so many anti-racist orginisations declared it a racist chant.

33

Big Stevie,

Sydneyside 12/10/2008 10:41:54
#31

Are you really suggesting in all seriousness that the Irish community in Scotland is entirely made up of "narrow-minded, whining dependency-culture bigots ".

Do you really wonder why you are being labelled racist.

Glasgow is the only major city in the world with a significant Irish immigrant population that doesnt have a Famine memorial .

I wonder why
34

Como Toes,

12/10/2008 10:49:45
#31.

Perhaps the 'real' Irish Immigrant Community (wherever they are) don't think it's that significant.

Plastic Paddy does though - doesn't he, Stevie?

Why doesn't he go home?
35

Big Stevie,

Sydneyside 12/10/2008 10:57:04
34

Perhaps "Plastic Paddy" has no wish to leave Scotland. Perhaps he is already home and merely wishes to practise his religion and celebrate his ethnic origin in peace without being thrown under a blanket stereotypes like "Plastic Paddy" and without half witted racists inviting him to "go home" and attempting to pass it off as banter.
36

Tarquin,

12/10/2008 10:57:08
Stevie, no-one is labelling me racist. Anyone who does will hear from my lawyers. I suggest you retract this suggestion and apologise immediately.

To answer your question, if the Celtic support, their paid apologists in the press and hate-driven mesaggage-baord contributors like you are representative of the Irish in Scotland, what on earth do you think our impression of Irsh people is? I would say my description is pretty apt.

It seems you have no idea just what an appalling image you portray of the people of a wonderful country.
37

Wee Fred,

12/10/2008 10:59:57
Poor Stevie - stuck out there in Sydneyshire scouring the internet to be offended.

How lonely a life must he lead?


Maybe he should come home to get offended.
38

Wee Fred,

12/10/2008 11:01:24
#35 - Stevie eventually plays the 'religion card'


He's been dying to do it and the only surprise is it took him so long.
39

Tarquin,

12/10/2008 11:03:57
#35

But Stevie, how could Plastic Paddy possibly not want to go home when Scotland is such a bigoted, anti-Irish toilet?

How's this for a new song for Celtic to sing:

We want to stay here
We want to stay here
Coz you're all such racists
We want to stay here
40

Ursus arctos horribilis,

12/10/2008 11:04:46
#19 wee Fred good points-nice to know something of our so-called journalists' backgrounds.

Bearing in mind this perhaps our intrepid reporter is slightly twisting the Irish Government's position to suit his own agenda.

In view of the current economic crisis facing the country and the threat of looming bankruptcy-what they really said -in a press release from the Irish Government:

"We don't want them back, keep them in Scotland, thats one group of bankers we are not bailing out".
41

Wee Fred,

12/10/2008 11:09:16
Come on Stevie - you have played the racist and the nazi card - why did it take you so long to play the religious one?
42

Como Toes,

12/10/2008 11:12:00
#35

If Plastic Paddy is 'home' as you say it, then why does he speak of Ireland as his homeland? Is he disorientated?

Should he now be known as Indigenous Plastic Paddy?

I'm still awaiting your condemnation of the use of the h*n word by Celtic supporters. Could it be that you use it yourself, which in turn makes you a bigot for using sectarian language (re, NbM)?

The floor's all yours, bigot bhoy.
43

Wee Fred,

12/10/2008 11:12:23
By a lonely prison wall
I heard a young girl calling
Stevie they are taking you away
For you stole Trevelyn's corn
So the young might see the morn.
Now a prison ship lies waiting in the bay


By a lonely prison wall
I heard a young man calling
Nothing matter Mary when your free,
Against the Famine and the Crown
I rebelled they ran me down
Now you must raise our child with dignity.


By a lonely harbor wall
She watched the last star falling
As that prison ship sailed out against the sky
Sure she'll wait and hope and pray
For her love in Botany Bay
It's so lonely 'round the Fields of Athenry.






Was that you Stevie?
44

BJK,

Glasgow 12/10/2008 11:13:02
Why are the Irish butting on Scottish affairs?
I don't hear them butting in to protest at Celtic fans singing the praises of the IRA, PIRA and such.
And their shaming the Irish with their behaviour.


45

Wee Fred,

12/10/2008 11:14:17
Nil By Mouth - The organisation which decreed you can cut green grass in a sectarian fashion.


Forgive me if I dont take them seriously.
46

Wee Fred,

12/10/2008 11:27:26
I note Justice Minister Kenny McKaskill is going to 'root out sectarianism in sport'


Maybe he should start by rooting it out in society 1st.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/2274383.stm





But then that wouldnt suit Eddie Barnes and his mates.
47

london calling,

12/10/2008 11:29:40
#33

I disagree there is a famine memorial in Glasgow,
known as the Stade Maris Piper aka Celtic park..
It must be as the fields of athenry is played every second week to placate all who want to be reminded...
48

The Sentry,

Meadow close 12/10/2008 11:31:49
I had a pint with a city brief over the weekend and he has said that while the song can been seen as offensive or bad taste to some it is nothing more and doesn't even come close to being rascist.
The Scottish government are having talks on all sectarian issues which was pre-arranged and not just because of a TWO line song.
It is no worse than FOS and that is an adopted anthem in his legal opinion.
On the other hand ,the anti British bile from some other clubs would certainly be brought under the microscope.


Molloy is a coward
49

dude,

wishaw 12/10/2008 12:03:59
15
wuggles,
Glasgow 12/10/2008 09:15:15
Perhaps the TDs in Dublin,in the interest of parity, could also ask the Scottish Parliament to crack down on the Pro IRA songs sung by the celtic support at all games.


Oooops!Silly me,that's not sectarian, that's political.

Sectarianism in Scotland is a one way street.


yea if you read some of the above comments and be honest about this bigotry, the biggest majority of sectarianism comes from the orange side. its not just football, its walks, unionism and the like that is keeping all this going, the seperate schools issue is one that makes me weep at times, the only reason i can see for the orange side to call for there abolition is to stop the like between the church and schools, meaning no more catholics ie. a form of ethnic cleansing.

both sides of this divide should have a long hard look at where this is going, independence should help but you will have the diehards who continue to bring up their children will bigotry.

its time to stop, its time
50

O sole mio,

Salford 12/10/2008 12:04:49
The Famine Song is not sectarian; it is RACISM. I do hope that the Irish force the Scottish Establishment, which has ignored this issue for so long, to confront it head on. Heads should role immediately at the SFA and SPL which have done NOTHING.

One would hope that Willie Haughey, who comes from the despised community and who is reputedly bailing out the SFA by sponsoring the Cup, would demand that any team which indulged in such singing should not be allowed to entry the tourney.
51

Big Stevie,

Sydneyside 12/10/2008 12:06:33
42

The term h*n is clearly not sectarian as supporters of most Scottish Clubs use the tern to describe Rangers fans and Nil by Mouth is an orginisation that after being founded for all the right reasons has completely lost its way.

As for your "bigot bhoy" comment please point to something bigotted I have written or else keep your bile to yourself.

48

If the song is not racist then why have pretty much every anti-racism body in the UK declared it as such.

And if this song is merely to "wind up" Celtic fans for their perceived obssession with Irishness then why is it being sung every time Rangers play regardless of the opposition.

Or perhaps the Motherwell and Kimarnock supports are full of "Plastic Paddies" as well.
52

Sam Carson,

Great Britain 12/10/2008 12:11:46
WHY DONT YOU GO HOME?, WHY DONT YOU GO HOME? THE FAMINE IS OVER, WHY DONT YOU GO HOME?

Listen up Irish immigrants: if you want to live in this country, you will abide by our laws, culture and beliefs. To the majority who do, you are more than welcome to stay here and contribute to society as you have done so valiantly since your ancestors arrival.

See to the celtic supporting, IRA sympathisers, who sing of blowing up this country, who chant "Get the Brits our now!", who revel in songs supporting the death of this countries head of state, who sing another countries NATIONAL ANTHEM before games...

See to all those people who seem to hate this country so bloody much... WHY DONT YOU GO HOME?

If I asked an Al Qaeda bomber to go home... or better yet, someone who was walking around Glasgow singing in support of the Al Qaeda (A terrorist organisation, just like the IRA) to go home, would I be racist or a proud Nationalist?

To all those in support of the IRA and who love Ireland more than the country they are in, all we are asking is "Why don't you go home?"

To all those who are happy where they are and integrate into Scottish society... all we are saying is "Enjoy your stay, however long it may be."

End of debate. Lets bury this racist tag once and for all.
53

Big Stevie,

Sydneyside 12/10/2008 12:16:39
52

And right on cue comes a snapshot of the ignorant racism that the Irish community in Scotland have to deal with.

"laws, culture and beliefs" so thats what was going on in Manchester.

54

Como Toes,

12/10/2008 12:19:53
#51.

Deflection. The typical bigoted approach from the aspirants of bigotry; Celtic supporters.

Big Steve, you are not very bright, are you? The Irish are not a race, they are a nation. To call the famine song racist is all wrong. Xenophobic perhaps, but not racist.

Must do better bigot bhoy, Stevie.

P.S. Did you know that Celtic supporters are the original h*ns - I've chanted go home ya h*ns to your lot on many an occasion in years past, long before it was hijacked by the Indigenous Plastic Paddy brigade.

Now, why don't you go home?
55

Jo Jo,

12/10/2008 12:23:34
Boo hoo....let's all get offended by a ditty sung in jest at plastic paddies.
There is obviously an art form to being "offended" and the plastic paddies have got it down to a tee.
Racist.....aye right...just coz John "The choir master" Reid says so.
Those people with an ounce of common sense and indeed a sense of humour know the song is directed towards those who hate the country they reside in.who hate the laws,the customs,the religion and the beliefs.
It is not racist or sectarian to sing a song like those to those who want rid of you in your own country.Who want their religious beliefs and ideals to come before those already established with the majority.
This is nothing but a sinister twist in the clandestine attempts to have Rangers FC and their fans ostracised from football.
People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

All you easily offended plastic paddies should remember that and get your own vile house in order first before you point the finger elsewhere.
56

Sam Carson,

Great Britain 12/10/2008 12:35:00
51, Big Steve,

So you refute point blank that my claims of asking people who hate the country that feeds them and looked after them in their time of need, who sing songs of blowing it up, why dont they go home?

Do you not see why we are asking them why they don't go home if they hate the country they are in so much?

Also, it's a question... not a statement. We are not saying "Go home" like Celtic fans sing at us, we are asking "Why don't you go home?"

Big Steve, you are a bhigot son. Jog on go home you ta**ig!
57

dude,

wishaw 12/10/2008 12:35:50
Jo Jo

give it a rest, whats the matter most rangers fans thing england and britan is their home country so by default you are staying in a non-country so where is your home
58

dude,

wishaw 12/10/2008 12:38:14
Sam Carson,Great Britain

Big Steve, you are a bhigot son. Jog on go home you ta**ig!

and you are righteous, no sorry you are the bigot
59

dude,

wishaw 12/10/2008 12:41:34
is it not the fact that SCottish people are by definition 'mongrels' so we are all little bits of lots of different cultures the only true scotsmen are highlanders the rest of us are mongrels
60

Big Stevie,

Sydneyside 12/10/2008 12:41:56
54

Again I ask show me something I have said that is bigotted. Its not to much to ask.

At the risk of repeating myself why, if the song is not racist, has it been declared so by most if not all of the anti-racism watchdogs in the UK.

So you claimed earlier that the term h*n was sectarian yet you are now admitting to calling Celtic fans h*ns in the past. Eh ok then.

And dont worry I'm home already. Sydney is home to me now and a very nice one it is too . Not having to listen to cretins like you on a daily basis is a pleasant change.

61

Jo Jo,

12/10/2008 12:42:31
#57
That is your own personal and misguided opinion.

Not mine.

Proud Scot
Proud Briton.

Proud to share my country with others who respect it and respect the laws and beliefs.

To those who don't and are intent on causing trouble.

"Why don't you go home"

Regardless of where "home" happens to be.
62

Big Stevie,

Sydneyside 12/10/2008 12:44:48
56

Your calling me a bigot and a ta**ig in the same sentence.

I know its painfull but please try to think about it.
63

dude,

wishaw 12/10/2008 12:47:21
ok then JoJo whatever tickles your fancy, if being in the gang is it then who am i to belittle you.

Independance is the only way forward for Scotland and for all you brigadoon hating 'plastic Scotsmen/women' the end is nigh for your beloved union, up the revolution
64

Tarquin,

12/10/2008 12:48:39
Stevie, your bigotry is clear for all to see in your posts, particulalrly your attempts to whitewash use of the word "h*n".

The word "h*n", depsite its very different origins, is used today as a derogatory term for Protestants in republican communities in Scotland and Northern Ireland. That's why bigoted Celtic fans sing "Go Home Ya H*ns" to fans of Rangers, Hearts, Kilmarnock and Motherwell. Even the heavily pro-Catholic charity Nil By Mouth specifically refer to "h*n" as an unacceptable sectarian term. Why else would the word be banned on this forum?

The Celtic support contains bigots who sing sectarian songs. Get used to it and admit it, your denial fools no-one.
65

Keef Richards,

London 12/10/2008 12:49:08

Here are some "lyrics" from four different songs sung at Scottish football grounds.

1/ Go on HOME British soldiers go on home.

2/ Send them HOMEwards to think again.

3/ Go HOME ya h*ns, go home.

4/ The Famine's over, why don't you go HOME.


Why the fuss about only the last song.?
66

dude,

wishaw 12/10/2008 12:50:05
what about the clowns who brought shame to Scotland in manchester,singing bigoted songs en mass is that your vision for Scotland within the union, send all the taigs home and anyone else not a true loyal supported of 'british scottishness'
67

Jo Jo,

12/10/2008 12:50:13
I am in "gang"

If there is such a gang then it is the "Brigadoon" one you mention.

Independence.......If Alex Salmond is the messiah leading us to Independence then god help us.

He couldn't even manage his own finances thanks to his love of the horses (Allegedly)
68

Wee Fred,

12/10/2008 12:52:06
So lets get this straight - The banner headline screams out

"Irish ministers join the battle to rid Scottish football of sectarian chanting"

Now we are being told its NOT sectarian its racist.

I wish these offended people would make up their mind what they are actually offended about.





Anyone care to comment on Bishop Devine and his observations that it was faith schools which "enabled sectariansm"?
69

dude,

12/10/2008 12:52:25
Even the heavily pro-Catholic charity Nil By Mouth specifically refer to "h*n" as an unacceptable sectarian term.

does that just take the biscuit, here is an organisation supported by all right thinking people in scotland and the anti-scotland brigade thinks it is a sectarian front, poor hard done by bigots
70

dude,

12/10/2008 12:55:29
He couldn't even manage his own finances thanks to his love of the horses (Allegedly)

more and more people are seeing his leadership as the way forward for scotland, if you cant see tha because of your british tinted glasses thats your problem but insults does not change the fact that since the SNP victory scotland has never had it so good, think how great it will be when independence finaly comes
71

Tarquin,

12/10/2008 12:55:57
Nil By Mouth is a wholly discredited sham charity. It is respected by no-one except the terminally stupid and the Celtic support. However, even NBM know a sectarian term when they hear it.
72

Wee Fred,

12/10/2008 12:59:29
#43 said "yea if you read some of the above comments and be honest about this bigotry, the biggest majority of sectarianism comes from the orange side. its not just football, its walks, unionism and the like that is keeping all this going, the seperate schools issue is one that makes me weep at times, the only reason i can see for the orange side to call for there abolition is to stop the like between the church and schools, meaning no more catholics ie. a form of ethnic cleansing"




Theres none so blind as those who dont want to see.


The 'ethnic cleansing' comment took a while to get wheeled out.


Lets get this straight - Faith schools have been called "divisive" and "enabling sectarianism" by Bishop Devine.


Why should the state pay for something which is "divisive" and "enables sectarianism"?


Only in the mind of the West Coast dim could integration mean sectarianism and segregation be an "ethos".

The place for religion is church the place for education is school.

Integration not segregation.
73

dude,

wishaw 12/10/2008 12:59:41
wee fred

Anyone care to comment on Bishop Devine and his observations that it was faith schools which "enabled sectariansm"?

so what about when catholics were not even allowed school in ireland, all the bigots on the orange side all lay the blame of their personal bigotry onto the shoulder of others, if you are a bigot your a bigot nobody elses fault but your own
74

Big Stevie,

Sydneyside 12/10/2008 13:00:00
64

Please see post 54 regarding the use of the word h*n by Rangers fans. The word is used by supporters of almost every club in Scotland to describe Rangers fans and supporters of other clubs who are sympathetic to Rangers. It has been banned from this forum because Rangers fans complained about it. Its as simple as that.

You have no evidence of my bigotry apart from the fact I am defending the rights of the Irish community in Scotland to celebrate their ethnic roots free from persecution.

Have you any evidence at all that Nil by Mouth is "heavily pro-catholic". Please substantiate if possible.

And by the way I have never denied there are Celtic fans who sing sectarian songs.
75

Wee Fred,

12/10/2008 13:00:42
Salmond plays the 'begging bowl' card


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/7665462.stm
76

Big Stevie,

Sydneyside 12/10/2008 13:02:08
72

Catholic schools exist in every country in the developed world. Only in Scotland are they accussed of causing sectrianism.

Go figure.
77

Wee Fred,

12/10/2008 13:02:12
"You have no evidence of my bigotry apart from the fact I am defending the rights of the Irish community in Scotland to celebrate their ethnic roots free from persecution"



"Persecution" "Ethnic Cleansing" "Human Rights" "Nazis" "Cry Wolf" "Wolf" "Wolf" "Wolf"
78

Wee Fred,

12/10/2008 13:03:05
#76 - "Catholic schools exist in every country in the developed world. Only in Scotland are they accussed of causing sectrianism.

Go figure"



Ask Bishop Devine to "Go Figure" - it was him who said it.
79

dude,

wishaw 12/10/2008 13:03:11
The 'ethnic cleansing' comment took a while to get wheeled out.

never actually heard anyone say this comment its just a personal belief, if faith schools enable bigotry why does other country's such as England not have this problem except when brought in from outside
80

Wee Fred,

12/10/2008 13:03:52
"Have you any evidence at all that Nil by Mouth is "heavily pro-catholic". Please substantiate if possible."


Sectarian grass cutting is a good start
81

Wee Fred,

12/10/2008 13:04:33
"never actually heard anyone say this comment its just a personal belief, if faith schools enable bigotry why does other country's such as England not have this problem except when brought in from outside"


Perhaps you should ring Bishop Devine - he said it
82

Big Stevie,

Sydneyside 12/10/2008 13:05:20
77

Over 1 million people died during the potato blight at a time when the British were exporting food from Ireland. I'd say if the term were in use at that time Ethnic Cleansing was exactly what it was.
83

dude,

wishaw 12/10/2008 13:06:55
Sectarian grass cutting is a good start ?

what the hell does that mean
84

Phil Mac Giolla Bhain,

Donegal 12/10/2008 13:06:55
When I read many of the comments here I am truly glad that I went home to Ireland.

Such racism to Scotland's nearest neighbour.

Such sickness.

I truly cannot understand why more 2nd generation irish people in Glasgow did not come home in the 1990s to the booming economy as I did with my young family.


www.philmacgiollabhain.com
85

Phil Mac Giolla Bhain,

12/10/2008 13:07:58
#77 In several prestigious US universities An Gorta Mor is taught under the heading of "Genocide Studies." FYI
86

Big Stevie,

Sydneyside 12/10/2008 13:08:51
78

He didnt say it caused sectarianism he said it enabled sectarianism. That is to say it allows people to be more comfortable discriminating against Catholics.

Again a simple question. Why only in Scotland are Catholic schools a problem.
87

dude,

wishaw 12/10/2008 13:08:52
grass is green
sky is blue
you are a knuckledragging bigot
and so are you
88

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 12/10/2008 13:11:02
#60 Big Stevie

It's hardly bigoted to query the strange propensity of some Celtic fans to appear to favour a foreign country over the one they're born and brought up in. No-one is even hinting that Irish people aren't